Video Interview with Joanna Hedley AKA Ms Led

This was a great talk with Joanna. It was very informative and a lot of fun to dig into Joanna’s past as an artist and the varied paths it took to get noticed. The video and a full transcript are below.

To see her beautiful artwork visit Joanna’s site here and check out her 2 new books,┬áPocket Art: Portrait Drawing: The Quick Guide to Mastering Technique and Style – https://amzn.to/2QAyCYR Pocket Art: Figure Drawing: The quick guide to mastering technique and style – https://amzn.to/2xeKIPm

(I may receive an affiliate commission if you buy the book(s)

The three things I would take away is continue to be active. Find your art community and uh, you do need to believe in yourself. So find your support system, whether it’s a friend, whether it’s family that can believe in you, but either way, surround yourself with those people that are going to push you and make sure you’re pushing yourself into new things and the people that support you.

[00:00] Hi, this is Mike Rataj from Bulb Brain creative. Bulb Brain Gallery is this whole thing out of focus today. I just interviewed Ms Dot le d, Joanna Henley, uh, out of the UK. She just put out this book and a, the other one which is the portrait drawing. So follow along for the entire talk between Joanna, her career as an artist. The three things I would take away is continued to be active. Find your art community and uh, you do need to believe in yourself. So find your support system, whether it’s a friend, whether it’s family that can believe in you, but either way, surround yourself with those people that are going to push you and make sure you’re pushing yourself into new things and the people that support you. So I think that was a fascinating interview, but thank you very much Joanna. Hi. Thank you. So, um, I am so really, so my general audience is mostly artists. Um, I kinda, I got involved with, uh, just sorta sharing, sharing our work. And then lately I’m kind of trying to get involved with more people like you that are doing multiple streams of things to, you know, to make the artist’s life work.

[01:27] Um,

[01:30] how I gather this. It seemed like you were doing a lot more. You can hear me okay. Right.

[01:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:40] It sounded like you were doing a lot more workshops, like in real life in a lot of like just in person events for years before you finally put up.

[01:52] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I guess that was my background before I started. I’m just going to get the book too. That would make sense. I’ve got a copy here too and we’re all over the place. It’s good though. Okay.

[02:10] So what was the, what was the, I think the biggest thing for my, my one question is like the zero to one. So like you’re clearly an artist, you know, like you’re doing your craft. How did you, was the first step like manager, just first gig and then it builds from there.

[02:31] Okay. Um, well it’s quite nice how the book kind of merge those two worlds. So, um, I’ve always been an artist, I knew that I wanted to be an artist since I was, I can’t remember since before I can remember, so maybe three or something and I continued with the support of my parents to go through academia and create work and learn how to be, I guess not learn how to be an artist, just learn how to draw because um, I didn’t really know what that meant at the time and not many people do. So I continued through school and then I went to school and then I went to university. They carried illustration and figure drawing and put a chair and people think of join with my, my favorite thing. That’s what I was drawn to. I tried lots of different things, but then I came back so that there was always that stronghold that was always something that was really significant and I was really confident in doing just because I had that insurance.

[03:47] So it was about just continually doing it and I was addicted to it. So that’s why I became quite good at it because with anything, it’s just about the work you put in. So after college, after college and trying lots of different things out, I went and did a degree and I worked well. I didn’t work at that point I was doing in fine art degree, so I was looking at painting. So still again, kind of using my themes of portraiture and figure drawing and people and movement and fabric and clothing. I did that, but I started learning how to use new media. So pastels paints lots of painting as well. Painting what I learned how to work big because when you’re in school sometimes it’s a lot. It’s quite, it’s a lot smaller. So when I came out of final and doing integrate, that was really tough.

[04:51] Coming out with like a degree, that was just our base. That was really tough because it’s like, well, what am I going to do now? I’ve got no background or haven’t shown with artists I haven’t, like exhibited where do, how do I make my money? And that was a really tough time for me. So, um, so I just, I, I entered lots of awards and I was hoping that things would just stick, but um, things were, were really tricky so I did sort of like lots of other different jobs. I was so bored I wasn’t able to do what I did, which was like create everyday I’d sketch even like when I was tiny, my mum still have all these books I used to make and cartoons and it was an addiction and then all of a sudden I have to stop what I was doing and they like a normal job to like, um, you know, the thing is I didn’t have any like interesting job skills.

[05:57] I did sort of office space stuff like reception staff, things that I could just pick up. So that kind of went on for awhile and I didn’t, you know, people used to say to me what you do. And I was like, well I wanted to be an artist but I have to work, I need to eat. And I was living in London so, you know, the city isn’t paved with gold. Um, so that went on and I was constantly searching for something that would, I would find something that would find me, that would kind of take me out of this kind of rough. I was really happy I found a course which meant because I got really, really low, actually got to make a good few years and I was very so very unhappy and I was like, well, what more can I do? So I found a course in a magazine and it was called a public articles and you fast tracking a little bit forward.

[07:04] I was able to combine the two things that I really love people working with people and I’ve done a little bit of teaching, you know, for my school work experience when I was growing up, even when I was 15 and I could combine joining in, um, in community settings. So that was where my workshop experience came from. So I was doing that, like, um, I think it was how many years? So it’s five years after I graduated. Actually there was a really good space of time and I’ve kind of given up drawing and I just thought, well this isn’t working, it’s not working for me too hard, and I was very, very sad. So through working with other people was amazing because I worked with people that I didn’t feel like I had the experience to work with people with severe learning difficulties and physical difficulties and it was a time that was quite magical because I was able to give something to them but they gave me so much more back.

[08:10] So that’s where the teaching came from and through working in this way, I’m working with these people. Something happened, my competence came back, more happiness came back and all of a sudden I wanted my creativity came back and I think you know that, that I had to create my environment that could support that and that’s really important. I think that’s, that’s really tough. I hear so many people say, well, don’t have the time to do it and I don’t really want to do this, but I think you have to like find the environment to make because you have to be in a good space. You know, you could do like really crazy work when you’re sad. And I used to do like really dark expressive work when I was in a bad, but when you were happy thing, you know, you’re in a good space.

[08:59] So, so I, I taught for a few years, um, because I picked up this, uh, experience, which I always say to people is so important because you’ve got a gift. You know, you’ve got that gift of creativity and it’s a good way of making money. But it’s also a good way of kind of what was good for me was I was able to step out of my art world. I was able to sort of step out of the ego. It was able to look at art as something that was important to enable people. So allowed me to step into a world that wasn’t about me and about, oh, I did this wrong, or this doesn’t look right. It was about how I can share something that’s kind of almost primal, you know, something that’s so natural and just learning how to work with people in, in really kind of different ways and being really sensitive.

[09:53] So that started to allow me to have a few days where I could start working again. And I got really excited about doing portraiture and I guess through social media it really, really kind of went, like overnight. It was amazing. I started contacting people on social media because my space had kind of had this kind of crazy. It was really interesting people and all of a sudden I had all these incredible subjects and these amazing models and I started texting people and I did my first sort of conceptual portraiture project, um, which I talked about on instagram last month. And I look back at it and I’m like, Oh wow, this is still kind of relevant and this is kind of really cool. And it’s really colorful. And I remember when our environment is right and when I was going to be, I had this sense of, you know, how these kind of helping hands kind of bringing it together and it just kind of just, the work kind of just glided in a way.

[10:59] And through that I just, I just use social media and I posted, I made sure that every piece I did was in every city of the world because you know, you could put your html in people’s profiles on my space. I kept posting and posting and making sure sometimes it’s spent like three or four hours for that post went out and then more people saw it. And it was a time when social media was very, very different. Like we were talking 10 years ago or 12 years ago is very different, you know, people wouldn’t using it to market themselves. It was about artists, communities and musicians. And you know, I still meet people and go, oh you remember people from like the like handle and you’re like, no way. And I worked with a photographer and she does loads of stuff. Advice and ID. Now it’s like, oh, you’re that girl.

[11:52] She’s like, yeah. And she’s like, I was like massive snow. So that really helped and allowed me to access people and communities and um, did a, it’s a, it’s a long story actually. I just wanted to, now that I started putting my workout and it was more about I just wanted to prove to myself that I could do it and putting it online space allowed me the space for people to go, this is really great. I started getting interviews and get, got a lot of interviews and a few exhibitions in the US. Um, and that was really great. And the more positive impact I was getting them more my kind of value is fluffing up is really, really like I was like, I’m going to do this now, I’m going to do that. And I’m like really empowered. So I started kind of, you know, raising, raising the bar and I found out about alive street autonomy and not a really long story as well, but it was a global tournament.

[13:03] Uh, I knew about it through some friends because I had a lot of people working in performance and I thought well I can maybe live pain because loads of people in London will be and I don’t have an agent and I want to be seen. And, and the guys that were running it, um, they said, oh, you shouldn’t enter because no girls, you know, they come but then they either go or they don’t turn up and another kind of kind of made me want to do it more sad. So I said, well I’m going to do it. And then if, if I, if I, even if I just turn up one in a way. And it was, it was like a football tournament. It was like really, you know, it was like hip hop p, a football tournament. It was like full on full power testosterone and it was 16 to eight and these are live around.

[14:02] So it’s like four hours live painting. And I hadn’t done anything like it before and it was like 16 to eight to four, two to one. And we had to do all these huge panels. And it was amazing and I ended up winning and it was, it was, yeah, it was such a amazing platform and things just, it was just everything that I did, I kind of had my own kind of like visual or verbal, sorry, my verbal and visual portfolio and I just told I was so excited and I think um, I think that really helped in social media, how to. My first job was with a diesel and I did a project for Reebok and, and things. Um, and things went from Napa. I think social media was great. Uh, the climate was good, but what I realized this really distinctively made a difference between myself and other artists and my art friends was that I, I think maybe because I was a bit older, I don’t know, but I was very, I was at at that time and was like, it’s do or die.

[15:17] And I had an aptitude. For example, I wanted to be represented by one agent and I messaged them like every, every few months for like two years. And I kept sending them more work and more work. And I know that it’s hard when you’re an artist because your, your so connected to your identity in your, your emotions and your, your whole person is, it is connected to what you do and what you produce. Attorney hard when you get knocked back. I think because I was so active and I was so happy to be working as or feeling like an autistic and it was just like, okay, well I set myself up to. It’s like, you know, when you do a job offer you don’t, you know, that kept saying to people at the table, it’s like you don’t just apply for one, you applied for 16, no one will come.

[16:14] So I made sure that I was super busy and I think that’s why I’ve worked in so many ways. So I learned how to do mural and I learned how to do textile stuff and I learned how to do packaging and workshops so that when anything one thing was quiet, there was something else that could have been. And for the first 10 years I was just touching all the balls and spinning all the plates, which was really, really stressful. Um, and I definitely don’t want to do that anymore. I want to chill out of it, but I think, I think, I think that’s my, um, what did you call it? A zero to a one to one. Yeah. And then yeah, I got the agent, get the contacts and I had my feet one foot the other in kind of fashion illustration, which were to like really big, kind of failed at that time. So that was really good. Um, and that really helped and I’ve made a lot of contacts along the way. And then part of communities which are really important.

[17:34] And that’s of what I’ve noticed. You’ve really just been able to connect with people the entire time.

[17:40] Yes.

[17:40] They do things, they think of you.

[17:48] You mentioned that in the diesel. Was the first big, was that. Did you reach out to them or was that kind of

[18:00] That was through the coummunity. Through the live out tournament that I did with my last example of like, oh my gosh, I can actually do this. So, and that happened because I knew a friend that was running the event where that event was happening. So it was like a festival is a design festival and my friend was setting up the system. So it’s about who you know to. Uh, so it was going, it was me going back to my space after winning secret wars, the tournament’s going right, okay, I need to find more people. I want to do this. It’s addictive. It was about so high. I was just the best feeling ever. It’s like I want to do that more. So I looked on my space and I found a collective and uh, the north of England in Manchester and then we’re doing live events live during the event.

[19:04] So they had, they were linked to another collective and that it was through that night I did the diesel through reebok. So at the time I was, I wasn’t outreaching to like big brands. I was basically outreaching to collective that had links to make brand, so that was really helpful. So I could be part of that unit for the diesel one. It was a big UK campaign which was an ad campaign which was called digital walls. Uh, you, I think they had it in Barcelona as well and a few other places in Europe. So you win the prizes to paint a really significant building in a different European city. You advertise it. They wanted smaller up and coming artists to paint the walls in their stores. And then so it kind of. Yeah. And then for reebok it was a, an ad campaign thing as well. And that was for, that was to do with live painting as well. And that happened in Barcelona for a bread and butter event which is like, which is again, like a big, it’s like a big retail festival. They had the super cool, they had the plane so they get their like festivals, but they do, they have like all the big brands, they’re like box fresh and the

[20:48] Nike and they all have like a big stand. And with Reebok’s, they had like all collective doing live painting. So I got to do the tournament. The guy phoned me up and said, okay, we know you win the tournament, but we do it again. Do it again once is enough. And I didn’t want to, I didn’t want to lose. I was like, oh my God, I put myself through so much pain. Like I was freestyling, say I practice. Um, and uh, I said, no, no, I’m not doing it again. He goes, what if it’s in Bosler? I was like, okay. And I won both battles there. I was like earlier. So that was cool. Uh, so that was the reebok one and then I got a big, uh, I don’t know if you have it then links, it’s like a, it’s like a deodorant. It’s like a huge brand here.

[21:48] And they wanted to open it up. It’s normally like dies, it’s like a like, you know, sure deodorant a bit like that. But they felt like a bit of like a cool, cool brand and they wanted to open that up. So that was the, from those two gigs I got to do my own. And um, I got to art director. That was amazing. So one of my favorite projects, I’ve worked with some people that I’d met through the street art collective that we’re doing the films and I was like, I’m doing this project come and video may, we’ll do like a time lapse of painting this huge canvas for 12 hours. We’ll do some. Um, and again, these were ideas that were coming because I had all those other experiences. I had like all this big confidence because, you know, I kept saying to people, you know, it’s not about, you’ve either got it or you don’t. It’s an all those steps that take, that allow you to get there. It’s known about that moment. Is that my high point of the activity because my mind was like, my daddy was on fire and it was a, it was a good time. You know, I think it’s really daunting when I see people at my studio in London and I’m like, ah, you should direct this and do this. And it’s like, you know, they, they, they’re on their own journey, you know, that might happen or they might have something else. It’s all very.

[23:20] It’s all very well. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[23:24] I think you mentioned it to being older certain points the do a die. And I think that’s my background. I was a financial person though. I was a film was a film guy for college and then I left to be a financial guy and then I, I’m done, you know, switching to just the creative life where it’s just like you see the alternative, so now they go for what you really want because.

[23:57] And you’ve been waiting for so long and you’re like, right, I’ve got it. And you had all these ideas and you just put it into action. And so yeah. So it’s a mix. It’s a, it’s about being an older, it’s about having to like, do the jobs that didn’t satisfy you, like you’re saying. And it’s also about, I think a lot of people, a lot of students feel, especially with instagram and the way the Internet is now, they feel like they have to have a b at the same level. Those people that have been working for a really long time and are replicating styles, they’re not finding their own. And I think that’s, that’s, that’s destructive in time.

[24:49] And I think having that, having that break to just have life stuff is really important. You know, I did, I did, I did a long time in academia and then I had to stop and I did other stuff and I, I use my art in different ways. It didn’t just serve me and when you saw it as, and that’s what the book’s about. Like, you know, giving back and seeing my aunt as a service, not just something that I just do in my room, you know, and those are the best Djs as the best people are the people that know their audience and know what they can give and are sensitive to that. And that’s what I love about doing all these different kinds of ops. You know, what I’m doing, I’m working to a different audience, whether it’s a different magazine or if it’s a different book when it’s published or whether it’s a mural and she uses that space and whether it’s in the school or whether it’s on a public building and the people that I’m working with, the seams, all of these things or was different and that keeps it really fresh for me.

[26:03] So, um, so yeah, so it takes me out of it. Obviously I’m delivering it, but it allows it to be kind of like a new idea, a bigger. That’s exactly

[26:20] when you first said that with the workshops to get it goes from the individual doing the thing. So once you had to involve the community in that from the story, it sounds like that’s been the success, just like not being the person in your room and like hiding from really getting out, knowing people and sharing. That’s

[26:44] key. It seems to be. It’s really key and that’s really nice because it’s so funny. I, I saw, I’m an artist who I like a lot and I really look up to and she, I, I first met her when she did a talk and she said, Oh, I get to talk about me is my favorite subject. And so many people couldn’t get away with that and she was just, I really identified with her because, you know, I love what I do so much. I love talking about what I do. It makes me happy and I can share that, validates that and it makes me excited. And I think the more you do that, the more you hone what, uh, how you present it, how you present yourself and you are, you know, it is hard to emotionally, like I was saying earlier, you know, separate yourself from your work or your part of the package, the package you are packaging the package and that’s so important.

[27:48] And the more you talk to people on the street and then will you share your work, the more it kind of opens up and opens up and then all of a sudden you can talk to clients that you are teaching. You know. And it’s really nice to be able to have, I think, you know, Gosh, my, I’m like pretty much like themes, 16 years experience teaching and that’s great. Um, you know, when, when I started workshop teaching with people with disabilities, I was just in a room with 10, 20 people and I didn’t know how to work with them because I wasn’t, I didn’t have the chance to introduce myself because that’s just the way that the setting the environment was so I had to learn. So it was like, Whoa, this person can’t touch stuff from this person is quite sensitive to these noise and this person cannot draw.

[28:59] Joe needs a carer and things like that. And it, you know, I started with like really big challenges and I kind of kind of want to continue that way just because that’s my relationship with her as if I was working with people come with so many unknown dynamics. But I do enough working with people that have the I can, I can enable, shall we say. And I love working with children because they’re just so much fun. You know, like, especially when I’m live painting, I, I, I ended up live painting for a first birthday for the royal, which is crazy and these children were hilarious. I was trying to draw them and they were hiding behind my board and we were just playing a game of freeze and I was like, okay, so now you have to phrase and you know, and it’s just like you just don’t know what’s going to happen next. I know I get um, I get very complacent. They get too comfortable when I sit in my room. I like cozy. I get tea on top, I’ve got the, like the magic happens when I’m outside. So I definitely spent way too much time in the studio for this, but it was with no more books for awhile.

[30:28] Well yeah, exactly. Because now you can use this to share.

[30:32] Yeah, exactly.

[30:34] Get inside. Now you can actually speak about it and you kind of have

[30:39] was,

[30:39] there was this book and then the first one. What was the time? It was like a year between the two.

[30:45] No, I take them both at the same time.

[30:46] Oh, you did? Oh, so it was like a

[30:49] wow on another book, but we don’t talk about that lot going on. Just these two books we’re going to talk about. Yeah, it was supposed to be a six month project, but it was a good. It was a good year

[31:11] and the only reason it happened is like you said, the 14, 15 years of

[31:15] leading down to that, you just kind of, it. I think so. I didn’t actually ask the guys at Rockport, I should ask them. I know me asked clients, but um, got in touch and said that they would really like me to pitch for doing the book and that there was an opportunity to do a second book and I said I’ll do both. It was a really good time for me because I was leaving my agent and this was something that I’d always been interested in living the life of an author. So that was definitely something that was the perfect time with, with teaching though, obviously I’ve done like many years of teaching and I’ve got some stuff on youtube that much, but I’ve got some stuff and I brought out a video, 2016 I believe and that was a two hour long misled fashion illustration video. So I think again it was all leading up towards the books and I’ve been like drawing and doing like little snippets, tutorials and things on my social channels for awhile. Yeah, I noticed your instagram

[32:40] is definitely very, very active, which is key for these guys. When I read the books I couldn’t even do social media well now and now you can get back at it and you clearly have a good. People will just sort of been waiting and I think it’s good. The brakes, the brakes from social media because people aren’t going to be upset that you’re not there every day. I think everyone realizes it’s like take a break, take a vacation and then when they want it more, when you come back to that much more excited. So, um, so one of the questions that was popping up too, how long into your professional life did you, until you got to the agent, how long was that? Like did you have one right away or was it a couple years, like after diesel and Reebok and then you started looking for the people responded. I can look at two years

[34:06] because I wanted to move away from St. I have continued that communities are changing and I felt that the scene was changing a lot and I thought I need to have a little bit help as well because I’m so stoked on.

[34:31] So, um, so that was, yeah, two years just as the teacher appears when the student’s ready kind of a, it was just, you were just ready to, you saw that you were just like, that’s good. A

[34:53] few interviews with different agents and I was really lucky at the time. I’m through my space. I ended up making a friend was a mental, that’s good to mention and he gave me a lot of support and helped me with um, you know, getting a really good portfolio. Introduced me to the Association of illustrators, like a huge market in UK and started thinking about an agent then, but at the beginning it was just, it was crazy because I was doing a lot of live stuff and performance stuff, all stuff I wasn’t teaching at the time, but I was exhibiting a lot. Uh, so yeah, it was about two years

[35:57] that mentor to all these random podcasts I listened to it, business people, mentors and coaches I think are like

[36:04] paramount’s almost all because you don’t know someone that can fill in those gaps and they’d be like, this is what you need and health. So That’s interesting. Are you guys still close? Yeah, we’re still, we’re still good friends. Yeah. That relationship isn’t, isn’t the same because, you know, that was like 12 years ago, 10 years ago. But I, I try mental. I mentor other people on the other side. So, um, I think, um, yeah, that, that was really important. And for me it was just about to talk about us, about he was always the one that really pushed me when I was growing up. He’s the one that put me on the instructional manuals and all that when I was young girl and that’s where I learned how to draw no in art classes and that’s why it was really nice for me to give back and I almost lost him a couple years ago and that’s why I’ve dedicated it to him because he’s, he’s sees everything I do and all the projects that I do and all the jobs that I get.

[37:37] I’m like, oh, pops, I got this job and so I have a lot of support and that really helped and I think I have to like to paint and then I think, you know, I’ve been really lucky because a lot of stuff has come to me, but I think it will. If your attitude is open and you’re happy and you’re in a good place yourself by the right people and it’s about being. It’s about being. It was really funny because nobody had asked me. I think in the first years I was doing or 50 interviews, there was a lot like in magazines, podcasts and so on. And it was only until a Spanish magazine interview and they said, what have you sacrificed to be where you are? And I thought, that’s an interesting question because nobody’s asked me that and I said I don’t think I’ve sacrificed anything, but that’s because I’ve enjoyed it if I was doing the hours that I do myself or anyone else that would have felt a sacrifice or I would have sacrificed, you know, seeing my friends, going to parties and doing all of these things and I think I was always seen as like the most hardworking in my communities.

[39:09] And I quite liked that because, you know, the harder I was working I was getting and I, you know, everything was a challenge and I love the challenge. So say yeah,

[39:25] that’s great. So I mean, I guess summing up your career, you basically said it. I would fake fearless and active

[39:37] unity community communities, which is also an active. Um, yes, yes.

[39:47] So, um, I mean your style, obviously it’s lovely clearly, or you continue to own it. It’s very unique. I think. I see where a lot of people get inspiration from it now. I’ve definitely seen a lot of artists that have been inspired by this

[40:06] know.

[40:08] Do you have any last, any last thoughts? Any last. I mean just saying active is kind of what I’m gathering.

[40:15] Get a support system, a support system, but yeah, and not isolating yourself as much, but I think if uh, if I had any kind of last pieces of advice and I’ve done a lot of work to support that, um, and my, my themes are very much about how we, how we present ourselves, how, how will Australia. And I think even now if I haven’t drawn for a while, take me like four times to do something really well I think. I think it’s really important to kind of demystify or demystify this idea of, you know, you see people on and you see them in any work takes time. You know, when I used to teach, I used to say it’s like maybe you don’t go straight into the books and when you have to, you have to spot, you have to have all those kind of, you know, those cartoon sketches at the right test with like all the, like screwed up pieces of paper on the floor that missed the.

[41:30] Because the been so high that exist. You just don’t say it. And when you’re at that stage where the bins like fully is where you have to go, right, okay, this is what I’m meant to do. I trusted myself and that’s been really important because there’s been times where it’s really tough and you have to go, this is what I’m going to do and you have to add it in in one word. It’s like beliefs. Having that self belief. I think that would be my last and just focusing and I think through being active and having the right people around you can help other people that will tell you, you are amazing. You should do this, this is what you’re meant to do or going, this will come. So that’s, that’s my, that’s my last bit of advice. I think it’s a, it’s a big one

[42:34] that’s, you know, that’s like, that’s got to be 80 percent of that hanging out with hang out with positive people because you don’t want the people that are. Obviously you shouldn’t, you shouldn’t submit that to anything. Go, go please. So, well that’s good. Um, cool. Well thank you. I, uh, I appreciate your time. This was a, this is a lovely book and uh, I think I wish you, obviously that continued. Best of luck with promoting and sales on this. Um, I will, uh, I’ll send you, send you a link once I get everything up on my site if you want to. Do you want to share or just see, I just will be in touch that way, but I greatly appreciate you taking the time. So continued success to you.

[43:30] Thank you. Pleasure. I’ll have a lovely weekend. It was great to be king.

[43:35] You too. Thank you so much.

[43:37] Okay, thank you. Bye. Bye.

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